Eric's thoughts

I hope we never stop questioning... I wish more people had the guts to write and express their feelings and thoughts as you are.

Thanks for your encouragement. You are kind. I too would love to see more people being real. And more than that, being true to themselves. For me this took hearing the Truth of the gospel in a way that I never had before (outside of church). This particular explanation helped me understand my real need for Jesus. Because being a "have it all figured out Christian" doesn't leave a lot of room for Jesus. In addition, the first thing I had to do before I could start being authentic was to start questioning things. (You can see from my first 2 blogs that when you don't question things for 20 years and then start...it's easy to get a little carried away and question everything =). Sometimes I think the church discourages us from thinking on our own and questioning things. Instead the focus tends to be a "here's how you do it" approach that doesn't lend it self to much questioning...which I believe is a key ingredient in changing ones self. That's why I hadn't changed much in 10 years. Anyway, there you have it. Sounds like we are on the same page.

Honestly, I love your thoughts and that fact that you chose to express them in a forum like this! This is the whole purpose of the blogs...

You summed up entirely why I wrote the blog to begin with....am I being so prideful as to remove the "key of knowlege from people" and portraying or selling a religion...and so complacent because "I have it all figured out" (which cannot be further from the truth.) It drives me crazy when I get so insider focused or just care about myself!

I love the passion you have for church and people and would love to see God use you in a powerful way as you are being real with other people...just imagine if we could all pull that off! How many more people would see the love of Christ?

Thanks for your comments Eric. I am feeling like I was too harsh with my comments last post, though they are my thoughts, so I apologize. I do realize that the church has wonderful people in it, doing some really great things. I agree that the latest outreach was something real and authentic...the idea and purpose was anyway. I think I was thinking of your original title of this blog "church sucks" and expressing my views soley based on that. Really just focusing on what we are creating (possibly something not real) and possibly how we are portraying ourselves to non-christians. If I was a non-christian and heard that a church had a strategy to "convert" me (I realize that we all have stratgeies for everything, but to actually say that we do and put it out in print seems wrong to me), I think I would be really turned off by that. I just don't think that the strategy itself should be the focus. I wonder if we just work on ourselves, adjust our thinking and hearts, we will naturally want to do what the "strategy" is intended to do. Without having to tell the church body to focus on it. Anyway...in regards to the church being a business...I agree with you again that businesses are not all bad and do great things also. I guess my point again, was for us to be honest with ourselves about what our goals really are. Not to get caught up in our pride (which I know is my default mode and have to check it often), or too comfortable because our business is running smoothly (complacent). I only know this because this is exactly what I was doing for about 10 years and felt like my church was blindly encouraging.

Man, I love this! Open discussion, what a concept! Maybe we should talk about this over coffee sometime.

I think we are arguing some of the same points...however I've got to say that you are fooling yourself if you think that you have no strategy for reaching people...it just happens that your strategy is being real with people. Which is by the way, what the Invest and Invite strategy is all about. Invest (getting to know people at a deep level and letting them get to know you in a real, tangible way)and invite (inviting them into a relationship with their heavenly Father and into a church family)

In fact, there are strategies all over the Bible, Nehemiah in buliding the wall comes to mind. A strategy for choosing disciples is another.

You are also assuming that something labeled a business or has a business mind set doesn't care about people...many business organizations are in business because they love people and want to help them.

As a church business we are thinking through these concepts daily and how to equip others. Which is why we did the Under the Bridge and other service projects on a Sunday morning, to show people that the church is not a building, it's us. The latest series of messages we went through were "The Church has Left the Building."

I agree, if we are selling Christ to people we have failed! But, trying to introduce people to their Savior in a real tangible way, by loving on them, serving them and asking how their day is going and truly investing in them because they are people that God loves...this is the goal. To that I think we can both agree and partner together on this journey.

I would agree that WE are the church. And I also think you nailed it when you said that We (being the church) should love people wherever we are (home, school, church). Unfortunately, WE have made “church” a business that does its work in a building. And because doing work in a building is also the “easiest” for us, least threatening and most comfortable, we start believing the lie that we have created that says this building is “where it’s at”. But we forget that people are smart and they can tell when we have an agenda. The problem is we are so wrapped up in our lie that we can’t even see that we have created an agenda. We think we are really loving people. I have attached something that was recently sent out on our GCF e-newsletter…..

JULY 2006 || QUICK LINKS >>> GCF Web | Email Us
A major part of our strategy to reach people with the life changing message of the gospel can be summed up in two words: Invest & Invite. We want to partner with you in the process of evangelism. Central to this strategy is bringing people into our church. I’ve been thinking it’s time we brought another aspect to the table. Not a change but an addition. Some balance to the strategy would help us be more effective.
When I preached through the book of 1 John, I noticed that loving our brothers was a high priority to the Apostle John. It seems to me that love is God’s evangelism game plan. Perhaps we could show the love of God to people in our community. Let’s bring our presence into the community in some tangible ways. I think we can deliberately create opportunities to show God’s love in a practical way. Our relationship with the Abbey Lane apartments is an example. Someone from our church went door to door at the apartments to ask a simple question. What can we do for you? Our school backpack idea was born. It’s a simple way to say, “We care about you.” Along with inviting people to “come and see” we are deliberately showing the Love of God.
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Does God want us coming up with “strategies” on how to bring people to Christ? Do we need a “process of Evangelism” in order to be “effective” enough to talk to people about Christ? Are we conducting our CHURCH like a business, not really caring about people, but just trying to make them more like us? “Come to our building and be like us” (so you can learn the agenda, start living the lie and maybe hear a few Truths about the bible thrown in here or there.) We are always trying to change people, rather than love them, and for some reason we think they can’t see this. Loving someone does not mean changing them to be like us. (Which I feel like was what I was doing for about 10 years and always wondering why I never brought anyone to Christ). You asked what loving others looks like and, like the example I just mentioned, it is probably easier to say what it doesn’t look like. But here’s a shot…From what I have learned in the last few years, I think it starts with being honest with yourself and who you are (realizing that we are tremendously flawed) and approaching someone with that kind of a heart. A heart that says I am no better or worse than you….just different, and different is exactly how God wanted us to be. And I don’t need an agenda or a strategy to convert someone to Christianity….because from what I can tell it doesn’t work. People have feelings, life is difficult and this is a tough world we live in. Maybe rather than selling Christ to someone I should just ask them about their day and truly take an interest in them. Tell them about my day and how I may not be doing so well and why. Share stories, and if given the chance mention how excited I am to leave this tough world for the world that I was really created for, and how this Hope I have is sometimes all that gets me through. Maybe loving someone is just being real…cut out the crap and business strategies. Maybe this is CHURCH? I will be the first to tell you that even though I think this way, I suck at it. I don’t love people the way I could, but in realizing the Truth about my depravity and in trying to be honest with myself, hopefully I will get better.

I love the honesty and realness of your response. Sounds like you are wrestling with some things as I am...

Maybe the problem lies in the fact that we have forgotten that WE(Christians) are the church...and it's the church's job to love people where they are at UNCONDITIONALLY...in my work place, in my home, in my school, in the mall, in a church building, where ever. Which brings up a whole new set of questions to wrestle with...what does loving others look like? If I am supposed to love unconditionally then is wanting to convert someone a conditon? If we are the church can we be "having church" every day? If we are the church is it important to show up to a church building on Sunday? And list goes on and on...

Christianity is for the people that God will choose. I'm not sure it's up to me...but sometimes I think church teaches me something different. Does church encourage my prideful "I am in control" behavior?? Maybe church should be less significant than we make it. Maybe we should just stick with loving people...start over at the beginning, before "church" got in the way of the Truth. Maybe "loving them where they are at" means going to where they are at, not insisting that our building is “where it's at” and that they should come to us before they receive our love. Are people the most important thing to us? Unfortunately it is very easy to forget about people when we make church something that is comfortable and safe for us…when we make it all about “me”. We get involved in things that fit into our comfortable boxes, rally others to join in our box, talk about how crazy other churches are and how sad it is that there are people out there that don't know what I know. What do I know? Not a whole lot, except that I am a broken person that doesn't have a chance left to myself, and that God is probably not happy with the church I have created. Maybe the best thing for me would be to look in the mirror, see how full of crap I am and ponder what I have created at "my church" (my own pride-fest...feeling bad for all of those "LOST" people who aren't in the "group", who aren't living the "good" life, like I am.) What I have created is even confusing for me…If I am living a "good Christian life", checking all the boxes and I have it all figured out, do I really need Jesus? I could say, "Of course I need Him, He's my savior"...but am I acting like it? Do I really think I need Him? Maybe I should ask myself why I needed saving in the first place...cause I am a selfish, prideful person who can't live a moment without thinking about myself...just like everyone else, like you, like the Pope, like the crazies at that other church. Good thing He sent a savior and that He doesn't give up on me...because I am pathetic. AND many thanks to Him for making me uncomfortable and confused enough at "church" that I might stop, remove myself from it, and realize the lie I have be living...and that I might be more LOST than the people I used to feel sorry for.